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8 Reasons Progressives Are Wary Of Bernie Sanders' Bandwagon
Posted by Pile
(80136 views)      [E-Mail link]
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[BSAlert *exclusive*]
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 EDIT: Note that this article was originally written prior to the 2016 election, it still contains very useful information on the dynamics of the upcoming 2020 election...
*BSA Exclusive Editorial*
I dig Bernie Sanders. I've always loved him and his perspective. I agree with 99% of what he promotes in terms of long-term policy. But I still find myself uneasy with his candidacy. I will vote for whoever gets the Democratic nomination, but I'm not convinced people understand the dynamics and what's really in play right now?
As many of those on the left and the "disenfranchised" are "feeling the Bern" and hopping on the Bernie Sanders bandwagon, theres a schism developing among those who pine for social change.
It seemed hard to fathom that a candidate that has been so succinctly enumerating many of the problems people on the left, center and right have been harping about has now become so contentious?
I gotta be honest.. to me it feels like another Deja Vu moment. How I felt when I heard all my friends get so excited about Ralph Nader in 2000, and how his fresh rhetoric was going to change the political landcape...
It doesn't seem to make sense. Even among the editors at BSAlert, there's contention on the value of a Sanders presidency. Allow us to provide you with what we think are some troubling issues with Sanders and why we feel, as much as we love what he says, In my opinion (though not the opinion of everybody here) Sanders is a pied piper more than he is a path to change...
If all you want is Bernie elected; if all you care about is "sending the message" ok, I can't argue with that. But if you care about actually seeing his policy ideas executed, and moving in a more progressive direction during the next 4-8 years, you have to at least be open to these arguments... |
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1. What Bernie Sanders promises he cannot deliver
The 800 pound elephant in the room, the over-arching reality that Sanders supporters refuse to accept, that true pragmatic progressives cannot ignore, is the idea that "President Sanders" can accomplish what he preaches.
Unfortunately, that is technically impossible right now.
Yes, the President can sign executive orders. He can direct the military here and there. He can veto bills. He can appoint supreme court justices. He can give speeches and act as a focal point for ideas on social change, but in the end, the president is basically a symbolic representative more than he is an actual instrument of change. He's better at stopping change than he is affecting change.
Everything Sanders promises has to be approved by Congress. Right now that's a Republican-majority-controlled group. And predictions are this is not likely to change in the next election.
On matters of the military, the POTUS is paramount. A non-warmongering president is of critical importance, but on all fronts, the real power is in Congress. Yes, the president appoints supreme court justices, but Congress confirms them.
Our founding fathers were well acquainted with the problems of singular ruling forces, which is why they made sure the majority of our nations real power rested not in the president, but in a collection 535 elected officials who make up Congress.
Congress is the "engine" of America. It determines whether our nation moves, and at what rate. You can turn the steering wheel on a vehicle left or right, but without momentum, it's not going in any direction. We've seen this principal in action the last 7 years as Obama's congress shut the engine off and shoved the key up their asses.
Sanders, having been a member of both houses of Congress for decades, knows this fact all too well. He's even made mention of this reality, but he doesn't seem to be bothered that at this point, Congress is more obstructionist and opposed to his ideals than they've been in 40 years. It's pretty disingenuous to suggest change can happen if he's elected without an equally significant "revolution" in Congress, which isn't happening, which he is not bothered by.
2. Like those on the right, Sanders is a divider, not a uniter
 While Sanders at this point has been gracious enough to not be attacking his fellow nominees, the same cant be said for his followers who are ramping up anti-Hillary smear campaigns in every corner of cyberspace.
This isn't unexpected, because Sanders campaign by definition is a mirror image of the tea party agenda: blame all the country's problems on "the other side". Whereas the tea party's strawmen are "liberals." Sanders strawmen are the "1 percent".
Before I get accused of employing a false equivalence fallacy, let me unequivocally state I in no way think that the left and the right are equidistant from the truth or the proper path to a better country and community. Nor do I think that most of what he says is untrue. Not. At. All. But I do notice both Sanders and the GOP are using divisive, disingenuous tactics to promote a pseudo-utopian idealism that ignores lots of other problems, that assumes many entrenched institutions will simply bend over and allow themselves to be shafted in the name of "equality and justice." Neat idea in theory. Never works in reality.
Furthermore, American politics has been dominated for the last 50 years by a finger pointing mentality. A need to blame our country's problems on "those people". A rallying cry to team up in order to "not let the other guys win." People no longer vote for an ideal. They vote against the enemy. Even though it seems people are voting for Bernie Sanders, the reality is, they like him because he's taken aim at their common enemy and he is very blunt about it. They find that refreshing, but it's still a mentality that splits our population into disparate groups who seem to either be the solution or the problem, with nothing in between.
Gone are the "it takes a village" arguments in this campaign. It's all about dismantling the enemy and his infrastructure. It's about declaring war on the 1%, which sounds great in theory but nobody is going to make those people and institutions lay down and die. And whether we like them or not, they're part of what makes things "tick." We need to change their priorities more than we need to destroy them. We need to begin making them understand why "the good of the many outweighs the good of the few" and how this also benefits the 1%, but that requires the promotion of unity, not division. It's not something Sanders preaches. His strategy is similar to the "winning the hearts and minds of the people" by invading Iraq.
If this weren't enough, in contrast with Hillary's tireless fundraising of tens of millions of dollars to help with fellow Democratic campaigns, Bernie has done zilch. Yes, he'll occasionally squeak out a statement about the importance of changing Congress, but he has been exclusively representing himself at most of his campaign rallys, whereas Clinton has been emphasizing her party. It's no reason Bernie isn't getting much love and support from the Democrats. He's not really a Democrat. He's been an independent and only jumped on board to get the media attention and has done little for the party that he would require to support him should be become elected. When a candidate has alienated much of his own party, what chance does he have?
3. There's too much at stake in this election
Sanders supporters will find this statement ironic. But they are also not looking at the big picture: Every other branch of government is now controlled by not just republicans, but extreme right wing republicans. The Supreme Court is barely holding on to any centrist views, much less anything progressive. After the last election both houses of Congress have fallen to a GOP majority. The tea party is continuing to gain ground. Even so-called "liberal media" like NPR have morphed into parroting the corporate agenda, fluffing the fossil fuel industry and beating the drums of war in the middle east.
While Obama unsuccessfully tried to get things done from the White House, the right and the money behind them, now unfettered by campaign finance rules, allowed them control even more of Congress. The only thing holding back the reversal of fifty years of progressive legislation is the guy in the white house.
This is an election the democrats cannot afford to lose.
This is not an election that a small-time guy from a small-time state, whose never been much of a target, or much of a threat to the status quo, should be tossed into an arena full of blood-thirsty lions.
We can't afford to not have someone in office who has dealt with these institutions before. Who is battle-hardened and has demonstrated she can take what they can dish out and still come out more ahead than behind. Someone whose every weakness has already been probed. If we fail, we don't simply lose the white house, we lose the supreme court, possibly for our lifetime. We lose healthcare. We lose gay rights. We lose women's rights. We lose our reputation among the world we've been slowly repairing since Iraq. We lose our civil liberties to "keeping us safe from boogeymen." We lose the battle to separate church and state. We lose science to theology. We lose our last chance to migrate away from fossil fuels and stop environmental catastrophe.
Sanders people think now is a time for attack, for change. The reality of the situation is, the left isn't ready for any attack. We don't have the kind of army the right has. We don't control any other branches of government. We don't have any loyalty among our community. We don't have nearly as much anger or commitment. We don't have an array of churches coast-to-coast who will bus their people to the polls. We don't have networks of thousands of radio and tv stations promoting our agenda 24/7. The painful reality is until we gain more ground, we are the defender, not the aggressor.
This doesn't mean anybody is "giving up." It simply means, we should be smart and not sacrifice what we've gained in an effort to move forward. It would be better to move forward a few steps, than risk losing everything in an aggressive assault with a new guy who doesn't have a track record of surviving these high level battles yet.
Bernie Sanders isn't leading a revolution. He's a young, outspoken commander of an undisciplined army, more rebellious than lawful, more reactive than proactive, less experienced than battle-tested, that refuses to admit it's out-manned and out-gunned.
We lose a lot if we lose. It's not a game. While some may think Sanders' opponent is part of the system, she's not. She has demonstrated she can stand up to the right.. and most importantly, live to tell about it. Whether Sanders can do that, nobody knows. It's a huge risk.
4. Sanders does not mobilize minority voters
 Obama was a diversion from the prototypical "old white guy network" that has controlled the world since the dawn of modern civilization. His campaign was a sign and a rallying cry for millions who previously felt detached and disenfranchised. Likewise, Hillary could be poised to be the first woman President -- quite an elevation in the stature of a social class that less than 100 years prior, didn't have the right to vote at all. These are powerful, progressive signs.
Like it or not, the election of an old white dude like Bernie Sanders doesn't mean much symbolically. And America's minorities and women know this.
Yes, yes, "But Bernie is different! He's saying all these cool things..."
Wow. No old white guy has ever spouted populist messages before, right? I'm sure this time the blacks, the women, the hispanics, etc. are going to believe him and run to the polls... I wouldn't bet on it. The research indicates otherwise. The main people at Sanders' rallys are white people.
There's a very good chance the huge minority vote may sit this election out if it's between two old white guys. They've seen that episode before and know how it ends.
5. Sanders has yet to face the media hate machine
It's funny that many Sanders supporters have such a sour taste in their mouth about Hillary. Yet believe he is more "trustworthy" even though he's never been subjected to an intense grilling by the "lamestream media." You have to wonder if the same force that made Hillary "America's least trusted woman" couldn't have an impact on his reputation?
So far, Sanders has been ignored. That's about the worst you can really say about him and how he's been treated in the media. Very few institutions have put him in their crosshairs at this point, even though there are plenty of questions. His opponent has nothing but mostly nice things to say about him. Sanders' ability to deflect criticism is mainly limited to some snarky responses to select media pundits feeding him lines he's practiced rebutting for the last 20 years. He's very good at that.
Give him credit: Sanders is very good at steering a two-way conversation away from strawmen and red herrings, towards the real issues.
But what if the conversation isn't two-way? What happens when it's a tv commercial that doesn't give him a chance to snap back? What happens when mainstream media and its army of pundits-without-opposition begin bearing down hard with their ludicrous opinions of who he is and what he stands for? How does Bernie defend against that?
The painful reality is the right have an unparalleled ability to project messages in mainstream media that are unanswered and un-contested. They could make Ghandi look lie a serial killer to the populace. They can take the most innocuous of issues and turn them into life-threatening drama. It's what they do best. And Bernie has never had even a taste of that served up to him yet.
6. There's something eerily wrong with the most progressive candidate in the race also being the oldest.
The average age of Americans is about 37 years. Bernie is 74 years old. The average life expectancy of a male in the United States is 77. There's a statistically-decent chance he may not live out his first term.
While Bernie seems healthy and cogent now, so did Ronald Reagan, who was the oldest person to be elected president when he was 69. Bernie is five years older than when Reagan was when he took office. And we know what happened to Reagan a few years later. It's a scary thought.
Beyond this, the painful reality is Bernie will never see the results of any of his policy recommendations. Our country really needs someone who will be around longer, who has a material, vested interest in making the world a better place.
Bernie's age, coupled with his defiant, outspoken demeanor, portray him as the quintessential Cantankerous Old Fart. The only thing missing is him repeatedly screaming at people to "Get off my lawn!" To his followers, he may be the "wise grandpa" but to many others he's the crazy dude at the senior center that thinks he's still in Okinawa and the Japs are coming!
In many cultures age is equated with wisdom and experience. Not in America. We worship the young and the beautiful. We save our most cherished pedestals for the pridefully-ignorant and mediocre among us. With few exceptions, the intelligent are more feared than appreciated. America wants political leaders who are un-intimidating, mellow and friendly. Bernie is none of that.
7. Bernie Sanders' supporters are probably not truly committed
They don't want to hear it. They refuse to hear it, but it's true.
Bernie Sanders supporters love what he has to say. They desperately believe he can make the world a better place. They believe in his ideas.
They're just not willing to work that hard to make it happen.
If you examine Bernie's rheotric, you will see that it parrots the "Occupy Wall Street" movement almost precisely. What happened to those guys? Why did that die out? Because while at first they had a wave of support, in the end, those pushing for change got tired, bored, distracted, and went on to other things. There's no evidence that Bernie Sander's supporters are really willing to back him up in the way he would need to be backed up in order to succeed. Sanders' fans simply want to press a button, click a mouse here and there, and then sit back and let him do all the work. They aren't in it for the long haul necessary to protect him from the inevitable onslaught of shit that threatened institutions he's up against will unleash. They'll turn tail and run at the first sign of inconvenience (see what they did to Obama as soon as he didn't execute everything he planned).
Another example of Sanders' supporters unwillingness to "walk the walk" is in their almost non-existent interest in the upcoming Congressional elections. Even if Bernie were to become president, without a complete change of the house and the senate, his agenda has no chance. If you want to watch a Bernie Sanders supporter go catatonic, ask them about who's running in their congressional district. They'll change the subject faster than you can say "Gerrymandering."
Real change requires more than swapping out the guy in the driver's seat. If the vehicle has no engine and there's no roadmap other than, "away from there!" you're not going anywhere. Sanders supporters don't want to think about the painful reality that political change requires compromise and small adjustments instead of one glorious 180-degree turn. The moment they realize that won't happen they'll be moving to another pumpkin patch with their "Welcome Great Pumpkin!" sign.
Bernie doesn't care that his followers have a short attention span, because he's at the twilight of his political career and this is a last gasp. But others who will be around the next several decades can't get on board a movement that really has no solid foundation.
8. Bernie has way too many qualities that make him de-facto un-electable at this time
People hate polls. Polls and surveys can and do lie. And they should never be totally trusted, but there is truth in data. The key is recognizing and stripping out bias as much as possible, and if one does this. If one examines the reality of the voters and what principals and values they are motivated by, there are things we know they like and things they dislike.
For example, Bernie is Jewish (culturally). There has never been a Jewish president or vice president. Jews make up approximately 1.4% of the American population. Like it or not, Americans vote for people "like them" - the more minority a group is, the less likely they are to get support from the mainstream. It's less a function of anti-semitism than it is a painful reality that tribes like to stick together.
On top of this, it's widely known that Bernie isn't simply "non-religious" but that most feel he doesn't really believe in god(s). He's skirted the issue but the atheist community claims him as one of their own. In surveys among the public, non-believers polled as the least-trusted group of them all. There's likely to be a president who's gay, transgender, half-black, half-hispanic, Jewish, convincted felon, member of ISIS than a guy who doesn't believe in god. The mainstream media can have a field day with this. The GOP would love nothing more than for Bernie Sanders to get the Democratic nomination because they know they can destroy him on the virtual of his non-religious stance alone. They've cultivated a huge voting block of theists that cross party lines and believe that in the absence of religion, there's no real reason to be moral. They'll jump on this and easily make Sanders as well loved as Madalyn Murray-Ohare.
 Let's examine Bernie's political history: He's been an outsider his whole life. Contrary to what some claim, he's not that good at reaching across the isle and compromising. He's been in the house and senate for 20-30 years and only got three bills he authored passed, and two of them were renaming post offices. He represents one of the tiniest states in the union and has a most homogeneous population of 94% white people. Blacks in his district represent 1% of the electorate. He's a white man's white man. He's never really had to appeal across cultural and social boundaries in order to become elected. He's pushed for a lot of legislative changes, but very little of it has ever seen the light of day. He's a great guy to have in Congress to oppose evil, but not effective at implementing good.
On a personal level, Bernie is a cornucopia of "un-presidential" activity. Unlike Obama and Clinton, he's been married multiple times. He has one child born out of wedlock to a woman he casually dated. He's no "rhodes scholar", he got a commonly useless degree, a BA in political science - known to all of us as a "let's party degree" more than anything else. Bernie has no noble work history. He was basically unemployed through huge chunks of his life, just hanging around doing stuff until at the age of 39 he decided to run for Mayor in Vermont. And then he just stayed there and focused on becoming a world-class curmudgeon.
And then there's the "socialist" label. Bernie wears it with pride and his followers love to point out the distinction between a "democratic socialist" and other kinds of socialists. Isn't that cute? They think Fox News, CNN, Talk Radio, and the Koch Brothers really care to know the difference and will be sure to help the American public appreciate the unique coolness that is "democratic socialism." Um, yea, I wouldn't hold my breath on this. But there's evidence he's more of a hardcore Soviet-style socialist than his fans think.
But wait, there's more! How about an essay he wrote in the 70s where he suggested women fantasize about being raped. The infamous "rape essay" is one of the many bombshells much in the community haven't seen dropped. Talk about alienating the female vote!
When you look at how easily public opinion can be swayed over the most casual of contentions, it's obvious Sanders opponents have a huge arsenal of questionable things they can deploy to make people re-think how viable a candidate he would be for the white house. Again, Sanders' followers super-glue the rose-colored glasses over their eyes, but not all of us can afford to be so hopeful when so much is at stake.
What other prominent progressives are saying...
Barney Frank: Bernie Sanders has been in Congress for 25 years with little to show for it in terms of his accomplishments and that’s because of the role he stakes out. It is harder to get things done in the American political system than a lot of people realize, and what happens is they blame the people in office for the system. And that’s the same with the Tea Party. It’s “I voted for these Republicans, we have a Republican Congress, we voted for them, they took over Congress, they didn’t accomplish anything.” You gotta win at least two elections in a row.
The Atlantic says Bernie Sanders is a Fraud: "The lack of support for Sanders among elected Democrats may also reflect his lack of support for them. During 2015, Clinton raised $18 million for other Democratic candidates, while Sanders did no fundraising for them at all. Those are just last year’s numbers. The difference in party fundraising between them going back decades would surely be even more dramatic. After all, before this campaign began, Sanders was emphatic that he was not a Democrat."
Rebecca Unger in the observer.com says"This is not about disagreeing with the message Bernie is preaching to Americans?—?I happen to agree with a lot of what he says. This is about the simple fact that his is an idealistic, naïve agenda that could never be put into practice in America. In this country, to legislate even one tenth of such an ambitious plan would take degrees of cooperation, sacrifice, even manipulation and such an immense amount of ‘give-and-take’ tactics that an idea that once stood untarnished, glistening at the campaign podium, would come out looking like a child’s napkin after a meal of spaghetti Bolognese."
Other issues include while Hillary Clinton has released tax returns since 2001 (and been savagely criticized because of her income sources by Sanders and his people) Bernie sanders has yet to fully release any of his tax returns.
None of this makes you the slightest bit concerned? Ok, fair enough, but please understand what you're in for...
Bernie is like a "special needs person." He's very lovable. He has awesome ideas. He's a great person with good intent, but as evidenced over the past 30 years, he is not capable of accomplishing things on his own and requires help from those around him. He's been living in a sheltered area of the country where he's been able to live comfortably, but now he wants to move much further out into the big, huge world. He does not realize how scary and dangerous it can be. All he's ever known is... Vermont. Vermont is not like the rest of the world.
If YOU want to adopt Bernie, you have to understand what you're in for. This is not a single vote, or signing a piece of paper and saying "ok."
If Bernie gets the nomination, every other day, he will be sticking his hand into an angry hornets nest. You can't abandon him. You're going to have to be there to take care of him CONSTANTLY, to totally back him up. He's nowhere near as capable in the real world as his non-special-needs sister, Hillary. Hillary can take care of herself. She's been out there longer. Bernie has yet to face what can happen outside of his sheltered space. Bernie likes to play with the docile puppies in his neighborhood but doesn't realize how vicious other, larger dogs can be, especially when you take their bone away. He will challenge powerful forces that can easily destroy him if he isn't continually backed up by his family.
This is a "lifetime commitment" if you adopt Bernie. So please be prepared for that or else you'll let his enemies win.
Are you ready and willing for that? |
Article written by Mark Pile for BSAlert.com
Follow BSALERT on Twitter! |
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| Posted by Dr. Eshe on 2016-02-06 09:43:43 | Yall need to get off the "Logic" train and realize that the ReThuglicans are all about the "Emotion" train...
What has been accomplished within the last 8 years with Obama, (who was also unelectable) has been the greatest policies since Social Security and Unemployment Insurance..the great back-up for society...
Hillary is more of the same and chances must be taken to change things...shes an Elder also...
You must also realize Elder-hood is something to be revered and not looked upon as a "Dead Man Walking"...
You need to stop with all the so-called logical facts and realize emotions drive elections/religions/social movements...
There is no Logic in Social Movements...
The World is being poisoned, by Greed of Corporations and Climate Change is going to effect the Poor and whats left of the Middle class..
If you want to Live...because, we wont be the ones living underground, under-sea or on a new planet that is already being divided up by Google Founders and other rich pople...
Yall worrying about the wrong types of things...
Gerrymandering is an issue no matter who is the Candidate...
You need to be encouraging each individual to run for an office...the local elections are the drivers to the National elections...
We need to run for City Council, School Board, but just start with the PTA/PTO...
Everything is not just in your place of worship...
What are Black people doing to change their Lives those of their children..??
There is no Ultimate Savior...which we are always waiting for...WE are OUR Saviors!
Im wondering why am I over here responding to this BS...
Yall need to get a grip and motivate folks to move, not pick apart irrevelent details...
This is not helpful...
We need a 10 point plan to continue to promote that all of us can point to...like the tenets of Kwanza...
Come up with a 10 point Plan and keep it up on your site...
Stop whining, complaining and over analyzing, we cant afford this... |
BS....
Posted by Terral on 2016-02-06 11:23:11 | 1. "What Bernie Sanders promises he cannot deliver." Yes he can. Hes crossed the aisle plenty of times to get things done.
2. "Like those on the right, Sanders is a divider, not a uniter." The only people hes devisive with are corporate interests, the ultra rich, and the politicians whove lined their pockets with their money.
3. "Theres too much at stake in this election" Yes there is. You can vote for the people who will keep the train going the same direction or start walking in a different direction if you want change. Many of us do.
4. "Sanders does not mobilize minority voters" Well the former head of the NAACP just endorsed him so Im not sure what that means. Since the NAACP is not allowed to endorse, thats a pretty good sign of where theyre at. And the competition does mobilize minority voters? What?
5. "Sanders has yet to face the media hate machine" His voting record stands on its own. What are they going to hit him with that they havent? Good luck with that.
6. "Bernie Sanders is old. The age card will be played by his opponents." 1 year older than Biden, 6 years older than Hillary, 5 years older than Trump. Nah. Not really.
7. "Bernie Sanders supporters are fickle and not truly committed" Cant speak for anyone else but Ill be voting.
8. "Bernie has way too many qualities that make him de-facto un-electable at this time" He just moved up to a virtual tie with Clinton and with all the scandals shes had-real or not-and the many people that do hate Bill and her on the right, I dont see her as having any easier time getting elected. |
| Posted by Bill Paul on 2016-02-06 11:35:46 | Your absolutely right.
Voting for the safe establishment approved candidate has worked well for the past 30 years......,NOT. |
Humanitarian
Posted by Talile Ali on 2016-02-06 11:47:25 | | I always appreciate articles that whittle away at a politician the way this one does! Point for point, it reminds people of why they are voting for the candidate and how important it is that they get out and vote! A lot of Bernie Sander supporters are true believers! They believe that the country can and will do better, if it has the right kind of leadership! They also want someone in office that believes the way they do! Bernie believes the way his supporters does! Hillary supporters dont believe a word she says but support her because she is better than the Republican options! So sad for these United States! But as the people of the world witness the moral candidate who is for the people get jipped out of the election, it confirms how rigged the system really is! And that is the fuel that terrorist use to fuel their fire! If the United States were a nation that Bernie Sanders and so many believe that it should be, watch how the terrorist will just dry up and leave the US alone! Why? Because, the US isnt going to lie, cheat, or invade their lands anymore! Terrorisms fuel is self governance! And the US should allow other nations to resolve their issues and govern themselves again! |
This is not Sophie's Choice
Posted by Pile on 2016-02-06 13:06:29 | Let me ask you people who think it's inappropriate to examine the "electability" of a candidate.... would you prefer to have one of the republicans in office if you can't get Bernie?
Because there's a lot of data that says this is what's at stake. Do you honestly think there's no difference between Hillary and say, Jeb Bush or Donald Trump? People said this in 2000 when they threw their votes away for Nader.
I'm all for taking a stand and picking the best candidate, but sometimes you have to make sure it really is the best candidate. And part of that means taking a good, hard look at whether or not they can do well in the general election.
How aligned do you, if you're a Bernie supporter feel you are with the average voter around the country? |
I call BS on this BS article
Posted by Ash on 2016-02-06 13:25:19 | 1. Ralph Nader ran a third party ticket, which has notoriously done badly in our two-party system. He also did not have the benefit of social media advertising his message despite his popularity. Bernie is running to get the support of the Democratic Party so that he has a viable chance. And despite the mainstream media bias against him, a lot of our information comes from the Internet, and we can check Bernies stances much more easily.
2. The Republican majority argument is being used time and time again. First, you think they will work with Hillary Clinton? Seriously? They tried to impeach her husband and they hate her more than they hate Obama. Bernie by contrast actually has a record of bipartisan legislation with Republicans, and even though they disagree with his principle, they respect him a lot as a man of integrity.
3. Bernie, unlike Obama, is not going to play Mr. Nice Guy Compromise with a bought Congress. Ultimately if the Republicans dont agree to what he demands, he will fight them and motivate people to get them voted out of office. The reason that didnt happen with Obama was because Obama immediately started compromising with them and let his base down. Thats why Democrats lost badly in the midterm elections. Hillary will not fight them because ultimately both parties serve the corporate and banking interests.
4. Dont buy the crap that Sanders is the just the left-wing version of the Tea Party. Yes, that is where we might be placed ideologically, but we are actually highly-informed voters, not a bunch of racist morons with no understanding of the Constitution or American political history. And the 1 deserves our collective anger. The way this article describes our anger to them forgets that 99 of the people are getting screwed by the 1. Thats not divisive, thats 99 of the people finally seeing how theyre getting screwed!
5. Bernie is not a small-time guy. He is the longest serving Independent in congressional history. He is the most well-liked Senator in Congress with an approval rating of 83. Congress as an institution has an approval rating hovering around 10 by contrast. Hillary is also no small-fry, but her judgment on big decisions is always compromised by her big money ties, and she ends up being wrong like she was with Iraq and Libya.
6. Bernie polls better against Republicans than Hillary does. The idea that Bernie is going to lose if he gets the nomination is a scare tactic. Weve voted democratic socialists into office before: FDR and JFK. People are desperate for real change and Bernie is the first guy in a long long time who actually speaks to their interests. We dont gain ground as a liberal army because we always dismiss anyone who tries to take up the mantle, something the right wing doesnt do. People will come out in droves to vote for Bernie. And by the way, Obama had way less experience than Bernie has, but he somehow was able to handle his presidency with these institutions alright.
7. Bernies support from minorities is increasing day-by-day. Hillary herself was responsible for a lot of grief that minority communities are suffering from right now, so dont buy the narrative that she has non-whites on lock. Black Lives Matter hates her, for instance.
8. No one trusts mainstream media like they used to. They are part of the frustration people have with our system. If they attack Bernie its not going to be as catastrophic as it might have been even ten years ago.
9. The age criticism frankly ignores that Hillary is 68 and Trump is 69. Theyre not that much younger than Bernie.
10. Its just not true that we are not committed. Bernie has made us go all-in this process. I am getting new people to support him and new supporters to volunteer their time to help get him elected every week. And there is already a movement of people running on Sanderss platform at local and state politics levels now. The reason people abandoned Obama was because once he got elected, he abandoned the people.
11. The criticisms against Bernie being Jewish and non-religious are stupid, because the author immediately contradicts himself by saying Bernie is a "white mans white man". Which is it? Is he part of the white privilege group, or not? By the way, Reagan was married multiple times. What the f*ck is this, 1980? |
GFY
Posted by GFY on 2016-02-06 14:16:01 | Given that Sanders just got the endorsement of Ben Jealous, and that he has plenty of minority backers among youth, No. 3 is the biggest bullshit of all.
Look, just be honest and admit youre a Clintonista up front, dude. |
religion killer
Posted by satan on 2016-02-06 15:55:42 | | Very opinionated with no real factual information. |
For Real
Posted by EL mitote on 2016-02-06 16:13:22 | | I cant wait when Bernie becomes president and BS eats their own BS |
newfie
Posted by Johnnynewf on 2016-02-06 17:53:08 | | I LOVE your reactions, not knee jerk mud flinging, but well thought conscious reactions, when an article start with "I Love Bernie...Buuuuut" you know it is a desperate attempt to scare people. A Democratic Socialist is a wonderful idea. I have watched you Country get fleeced by the establishment for too long, and your media is owned. Internet is where I see just how different your rational ideas differ from what they want you to think. |
| Posted by Bear Rich on 2016-02-06 18:57:53 | Ah and it continues, say the least thing bad about good old Bernie and the comments section becomes full blown conspiracy theory, delusional, circle jerk for Bernie comments.
You will never talk sense into these people, they are blinded by the lies and dreams that Bernie is feeding them. No amount of reality will ever get through until he loses once and for all. |
Yawn
Posted by Ned Hjermsted on 2016-02-07 02:02:33 | All conventional points from a conventional thinker. As weve been seeing for months now, Election 16 is anything but conventional.
The only important thing to remember is: When Bernie gets the Democratic nomination, Mr. Pile and company must fall in line behind the candidate in order to defeat the GOP. |
Saying something true about Hilary is not smear
Posted by Joe12345 on 2016-02-07 06:57:16 | | Hilary has a poor record with the truth and the Republicans will destory her. Sanders Camp attacks are a small percentage of what the republicans will do. Just look up Hilary Bosnia sniper story (she claimed she was under sniper fire, turned out to be a lie so she said she was sleep deprived) how is this a smear if this was actually what happened??? |
FeelThe Hill
Posted by Orie on 2016-02-07 08:25:35 | | Bernie isnt going to be president, ever. Period. End of story. Hillary is going to win the nomination, thank GOD, and has a very real chance of being president and making actual progress and change. Bernie as a general election candidate is basically giving the election to the republicans. Bernie sanders supporters are delusional, and seem to be ignorant of what a president can accomplish with a republican congress. Hes to far left to get anything passed and he will not budge on these issues. He doesnt have this big bipartisan history his supporters think he does, Hillary has a history of working with the opposition when she needs to and she has a history of getting things done. |
You have to step outside the bubble and look at things...
Posted by Pile on 2016-02-07 09:46:30 | If Bernie gets the democratic nomination, I will vote for him for sure.
But I've learned to never underestimate the gullibility of the voting public.
Most of the contempt for Hillary is manufactured by the media hate machine. Yet Bernie supporters think he's going to be immune to that?
Most of what Obama promised that hasn't been accomplished is the result of an obstructionist Congress. Yet Bernie supporters think he's going to be immune to that? He's going to step across the isle better than Obama? Obama was a Senator too.
There's clearly a double standard in play here by Sanders' fans, who think even though the playing field is almost identical, that somehow "Bernie is different." This was said about Obama 8 years ago. Politics and political parties have become even more contentious than ever. The idea that any progressive legislation will happen -- presumably because Bernie is more outspoken and blunt about what needs to happen.... seems extremely unlikely. It's nice to imagine, but I also thought.. there's no way George W. Bush would be re-elected.. since then I've learned to never underestimate the weird way mainstream media can direct voters.
Ultimately, I care less about who is president and more about whether or not our country can head in the right direction.
Those of you who think Sanders will be a miracle worker, make note there are some of us who knew the reality of the situation beforehand, and we tried to reason with you. So even IF you get what you want, and he gets the nomination. It won't be our fault he loses the general election, and all the progress we made is undone six months later. Healthcare for 17 million people GONE. Any efforts to embrace renewable energy GONE. Peace with Iran GONE. Remember.... we tried to say something. There was writing on the wall. |
Bernie is unelectable? The polls show otherwise.
Posted by CJFred on 2016-02-07 10:24:00 | | I have yet to see a head-to-head poll in which Hillary fares any better against either of the two leading Republican candidates, Trump or Cruz, than Bernie does. In some polls, Hillary beats either Republican, but Bernie beats them by a much wider margin. In others, Hillary beats trump but loses to Cruz, while Bernie easily defeats either of them. So to say that Hillary is a good bet for winning the general election while Bernie is not is disingenuous and incompatible with the current poll results. Yes, theres time for things to change, but unless you have good reason to believe that the numbers will improve for Hillary and decline for Bernie, he remains more electable than she is. |
There's one thing not reflected in the polls you guys ignore
Posted by Pile on 2016-02-07 13:01:37 | ... and that is the influence the Koch brothers, all the financial companies, the oil and gas industry and every other mega corporation and republican supporter who has money to spend in media, and the tons of anti-liberal media pundits who at the present time, are ignoring Bernie in hopes that he'll upset Hillary.. at which point they'll attack him. You seem to think that won't have an impact on public opinion?
How many times have you all seen a good politician get beaten by a bad one, because the bad guy had more money and media coverage? It happens all the time every day. How can you possibly think Bernie Sanders will be immune to those forces? Especially when he's taken perhaps the most adversarial posture towards powerful special interests than anybody else? You think those people are going to not attack? You think a virtually unlimited amount of money and hate-ads won't affect public opinion? |
Chief of Gaydar
Posted by Prohill Femburn on 2016-02-07 17:07:50 | | I hope that at least a few of the delusional Sanders supporters will read this article and pay attention to the warnings embodied in it. They are acting like cult members who are mindlessly drinking the cool aid without analyzing the ingredients. Ive been voting since Nixon vs Kennedy and have seen Democrats commit political suicide. Its not pretty. We saw that in 2008 when a Junior Senator with a good speech and little experience challenged and beat Hillary. Deja vu all over again? Oy! |
Youre an idiot
Posted by El Diablo on 2016-02-08 03:51:05 | | This was one of the worst op-ed pieces I have ever read. The was very little real info just a ton of nonsense value statement in a gutless attempt to create an illogical narrative. This is why if Bernie doesnt get the nomination I will just vote Republican. Hillary is no different than Trump or Cruz. She was bought and paid for by the same corporate masters. |
Nice parody of Hillary surrogates
Posted by Avedon on 2016-02-08 07:21:32 | But you left out, "Hes too far left, he supports Social Security expansion and raising the minimum wage and health care for all!"
I did like "7. Bernie Sanders supporters are fickle and not truly committed" - you put that there just to aggravate his younger supporters and make them more committed than ever, didnt you? Good work! |
Troll Lol =- lol, lol- lol - lol - lol
Posted by The Bastard in the Room on 2016-02-08 12:31:45 | Looks like someone tried to cobble an "Informed" opinion off of one Shillary site.
*slow clap*
What we have here is a clear case of trying to have the accusations outweigh the evidence. Anyone with $200 for a domain name and a website is in no way a reliable source for political commentary, especially when their argument is based on emotion rather than political strategy.
Good to see you try though. |
I could tear apart every argument in this "op-ed"
Posted by ATS on 2016-02-08 23:35:14 | ...but it seems like everyone else already has...and I dont have the time...
Pretty awful piece to say the least. |
| Posted by oldandgrumpy on 2016-02-09 13:14:05 | Bernie is channelling FDR and Eisenhower. How radical is that? Isnt our current aberration the real radical condition? We dont have to go to Denmark to see the benefits of his policies. We only have to look to our own history and pick out our best years. They are all the product of socialist policies and taxation of extreme wealth. Free college is radical? GI Bill?? Single payer health care is radical? Government already pays half of all billing, and does it more efficiently and with more downward pressure on costs than insurance. A 52 percent tax on billionaires is radical? It was 92 percent under Eisenhower during our best years for the middle class.
Your position also assumes the inevitability of a strong red state opposition. Those states contain most of the poor and working poor in America and only the lack of a candidate speaking for their issues has kept GOP power entrenched there. A strong change candidate they can relate to could bring out massive numbers of voters and devastate GOP dominance with down ballet losses. It might not happen immediately, but Bernie isnt promising everything being done on his first day. Hes being remarkably candid about the need for sustained action and continual pressure against the entrenched special interests.
Bernie polls better against every possible GOP candidate than Hillary does, and that doesnt count additional voters a strong change candidate can bring to the polls. Hillary is more of the same with minor tweaks and incremental change, if any, so saying Bernie is unelectable because he cant stop the world from turning immediately is disingenuous, bordering on dishonest from a professional pundit.
Bernie isnt running as a "saviour". Hes running as the leader of a movement that is going to take work and dedication from the people. The alternative is America stepping over the line to fascism and a militarized state, so a little work and activism isnt the hard sell it was once. People are angry and they are frightened. |
| Posted by Anonymous on 2016-02-09 14:16:02 | | Bullshit just like washington |
Polling ha ha
Posted by Berned on 2016-02-09 14:38:34 | | Ha ha, you guys think the polls matter right now, before the Koch brothers have opened their checkbook and a hundred right wing PACs start plastering the media with ads that suggest Bernie is a communist atheist who wants to destroy the Constitution. Just wait. Its comin |
#feelingthebern
Posted by Dianne McCarthy on 2016-02-09 18:08:58 | | BS article full of Hillary SPIN...1. Bernie will stand on his principles instead of trading off against US...2. Bernie, a divider???Tell that to the libertarians supporting him? Bernie draws left, right and middle..3. Theres too much at stake to put in another corporate sellout...4. Plenty of minority support for Sanders...5. The media like the Clinton campaign has dismissed Bernie.That will change..Clinton has been doing the medias dirty work thus far...6. just BS.. younger voters are going for Sanders..Trump is just 5 years younger and Clinton 6 years younger...7....BS..just watch us..8....Bernie has proven with large crowds, almost a tie in Iowa and tonights ass whoopin in NH that he is quite electable.. and would simply be another FDR in a time hes sorely needed.. |
SILLINESS
Posted by ANONYMOUS on 2016-02-10 06:48:18 | | Agree with the article 100 percent. Bernie is a joke and would accomplish NOTHING. Open your eyes people! |
is hard to hear.
Posted by The Truth on 2016-02-10 11:06:00 | | I am a Socialist but the movement Bernie would need to get anything done is not there yet maybe in 10-15 years that will change.12 years Kerry could not beat an unpopular president on his way down because of a Swift boat ad that got ex military voters to see Kerry as a traitor.2 years ago the Republican party took both houses of congress even though more people voted Democrat then Rethuglican in congressional elections.The Electorate can not change fast enough that Bernie can win a national bipartisan election.When my time comes I will support Clinton because the Supreme court is too important to lose and so is Health Care. |
Do you want Bernie OR the change Bernie promises?
Posted by Pile on 2016-02-12 11:05:21 | The operative issue is what kind of Bernie supporter are you?
Are you enamoured with the guy and his rhetoric and you just want him to have a bigger podium from which to rail about the establishment?
If so, then I can't argue against your desire to have him as president.
However, if what you really want, is the implementation of the policies he espouses, that's another matter entirely, and you guys cannot afford to ignore the issues outlined in this article, because they relate directly, rationally, logically to the likelihood of his policies going into action. You can't just arbitrarily say, "Everybody will vote for Bernie and Bernie will change everything." That's unrealistic.
If you hired a contractor to remodel your house, and he said, "cut me a check for $10,000 and I'll replace the roof, kitchen, bathrooms, all the carpet, plumbing and electrical." Wow that sure sounds awesome... but you have a neighbor that's going, "Dude, that doesn't sound like a realistic estimate of what it will actually cost? Where's the guy's crew? All I see is one guy in an old beat up truck." But you're so excited about what he's proposing you are ready to give him that check. You might want to hear what your neighbors are saying... There's a very good chance if you give him that check, he won't get hardly anything done. |
Reality is hard to except.
Posted by Jojo on 2016-02-14 21:59:36 | | Had the same thought s about this Revolution Bernie talks about and what comes to mind is Occupy Wall Street,Every state had a occupy, colleges,universities every park, it lasted six months, students were pepper sprayed and beaten,Policeman were injured,and the Governors shut it down. There will never be free college or healthcare, the Republicans are already starting to call Bernie a crazy old socialist. So go ahead people if you cant face the facts, your the problem,you are no different than the tea party. |
TRUTH
Posted by Kirkwood on 2016-02-15 15:31:37 | | ONLY a COWARD will post a meme and block comments. That is only way to tell who is on the lying side. |
Bernies Has Worked for Scandinavia for Decades
Posted by Kirkwood on 2016-02-15 15:56:22 | Who exactly is your expert on what "Democratic Socialism" is? Fox news? The Enquirer newspaper? Research the many types of Socialism in the world today, and how to recognize Communism while you are at it. Educate yourself into the 21st century.
Dem. Socialism is the Scandinavian style with a proven success reate from ‘The Happiest Countries in the World Study’ (2012)
As ranked:.
#1 Denmark
#2 Finland
#3 Switzerland
#4 Norway
#5 Sweden
#6 Netherlands
The U.S. didn’t even make the top 26 !
Page 41 - Figure 2.8 titled: "Average Happiness (with Life as A Whole) by Country".
Read the entire study here: http://worldhappiness.report/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2012/04/World_Happiness_Report_2012.pdf |
Fantastic smear job of Bernie Sanders
Posted by Ben Johnson on 2016-02-19 18:09:14 | | Very biased article. I call Bullshit on the author and their motives. |
Everything is biased
Posted by Pile on 2016-02-20 15:01:13 | | DUH. Congratulations dude. You recognize that I, as a human being, have an opinion and am inclined to share that opinion on my own web page. You sir are an inspiration! |
Unbased shite opinion.
Posted by Thetruth on 2016-03-07 00:57:23 | | You can have an opinion, but that doesnt mean its not shit. First off, If you knew anything about Bernie, you would know that his main message is that he cannot do this alone. He has repeated in many speeches that he wants us to get out and vote for who we want in house,that we have one of of lowest voter turnouts. Im assuming you know of the congressional election held every two years, the next one being held this year on november 8th? It is our fault our country is the way it is, no one elses. In the past 32 years of his life in politics, he has fought on more subjects than you could possibly count, he is true to his word. Using utopian style rhetoric too sway the people? When is bringing real issues to light like a corrupt federal reserve trying to woo people? He has awoken many americans to the true state in which our country resides and that is what matters. Hes not trying to use any tactics as he has talked on many different subjects, not just subjects that only benefit the people. A educated populace equals a better formed society, so I definitely want a leader who is honest and tells us of these real problems. Of course HE wont be able to do anything. WE the people on the other hand, can transform this country with the help of Bernie and this is what his campaign is about. |
No
Posted by No on 2016-03-27 17:41:05 | | This made my IQ drop 46 pts |
Hypocrisy and Idiocy at its finest.
Posted by Snark on 2016-03-27 20:18:41 | | Mark Pile is like the special needs author at BSAlert, unable to do his own research or formulate his own arguments from fact, he is utterly dependent on his family of fellow Hillary supporters to feed him lines to copy/paste while he tries not to drool on his mouse. He is lovable and has good intent, but an unfortunate complete inability to engage in critical thinking. Please be kind to him and avoid causing the mental breakdowns he is prone to from paradigm shifts and just let him keep his security blanket. Dont worry Mark, little buddy, you just stay here in your safe space while we fight for real change. We wont let the big scary Republicans get you. There there. |
personal attacks don't change facts
Posted by Pile on 2016-03-31 10:28:45 | | Call me names all you want. It only shows that your argument is weak. |
| Posted by Silent Bob on 2016-04-04 06:10:52 | Oh look, a look Bernie cant win and hes not really ever done anything post. All the while Bernie gains and has put more legislation through congress than Hillary has.
Bernie is being ignored by the media machine, and yet he gains.
Polls show him ahead of all the candidates, but he cant win.
You really need to take your head out of the sand |
| Posted by TRUTH on 2016-04-12 07:34:14 | | Its difficult to understand what your purpose was with this item... You are absolutely wrong on ALL of your points. You are NOT calling BS, you are flat-out attempting to sway our votes to Clinton. CLINTONS middle names are Corruption and Deceit. He does not receive media attention because Time Warner, who owns CNN and multiples of other media outlets - both print and televised - is heavily invested financially in Clinton. Wasserman Shultz and Clinton have been good friends for a long time - how can a chair of a political party be biased?!? Their entire job is to simply get a party member elected - not a PARTICULAR candidate. Corruption and deceit cloak Clinton on ALL levels - along with complete lack of trust in her not changing her mind, flip-flopping like a dying fish. As Silent Bob stated, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND and see whats staring you in the face. Sanders is the ONLY viable, honorable, very-experienced candidate running - and has never wavered in his 30+ year career in his respect and hopes for the PEOPLE! Trump is an egomaniacal moron with the brains and selfless morality of a hyena - AND hated in every country hes ever stepped foot. Cruz is Lucifer. What is YOUR PROBLEM!?! |
zombie jack
Posted by Jasper Wiseman on 2016-05-31 08:40:31 | | Its unfortunate. Both sides of this debate have good points. None of you are trying to find common ground and come from a position of unity. Remember "united we stand, etc.?" Both sides have good points both positive and negative about the other side. Accept it and quit pretending like your candidate is perfect. I dont see a perfect candidate anywhere in this election. Some may be less perfect than others, but alienating those that like one candidate in service of another is weakening the whole group wanting change to a more fair and rational government. If this is what you really want, and not just a football game, try mining your better selves for comments, actions, etc. The one thing I hope we can all agree on is electing a Republican of any stripe, will likely set social and financial change back decades. |
Common Ground
Posted by Pile on 2016-05-31 09:10:41 | The common ground is focusing on ISSUES and not PERSONALITIES.
Bernie is 74 years old. He would never last long enough to see any of his policies fully take form in the first place. And the way his followers idolize him means as soon as he's out of the picture, they're gone. They're exclusively attached to Bernie the man, and NOT the issues he promotes.
The Occupy Movement had more potential because it was issue oriented without anyone being a specific figurehead. Where there's a central figure, there's a central target. Take that target out and the revolution fails.
What happens to Bernie supporters when he doesn't get the nomination? Are they going to find another candidate? Are they going to push existing leaders to follow Bernie's agenda? Or are they going to sulk back into their caves and spend another four years complaining that the system doesn't work because their guy didn't win? |
Hed get my vote
Posted by turk_182 on 2024-04-19 14:12:24 | | The President doesnt work alone. The radical right would love to impeach Joe Biden they tried to overthow FDR. The radical right is in the minority of voters, maybe when trump is behind bars people will wake up. |
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